Strip 133

10th Feb 2015, 12:00 AM in Corvus Village
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Average Rating: 5 (4 votes)

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Haegan2005 10th Feb 2015, 12:02 AM edit delete reply
Haegan2005
This, like many of your strips, brings back old times and lets me laugh at them!
Raxon 10th Feb 2015, 12:17 AM edit delete reply
Raxon
Alignment fights! Oh, what fun!
Zilfallion 10th Feb 2015, 1:51 AM edit delete reply
Zilfallion
Ahh, alignment. I long ago proved through a logical argument with my primary GM that there is no such thing as good and evil. Since then I've had no alignment fights.
Bitzer 10th Feb 2015, 11:57 AM edit delete reply


"Meteor Knight"
Is the fellow on the right in panel one a younger version of our druid friend?
DtDoom 10th Feb 2015, 12:58 PM edit delete reply


"Alignment"
Few things are as hotly debated in gaming as the Alignment system.

Every group has probably had at least one argument about them, and every player tends to have their own ideas as to how it should apply.

For reasons that I cannot fathom, some consider alignments to be hardcoded absolute rules, black and white, good and evil, law and chaos. Even with neutrality, they don't see a middle ground. They cannot see the various shades of gray between the black and white extremes.

I personally see alignments as general guidelines. As in, this is how many of this alignment tend to act under normal circumstances. It is still up to you, the player, how your character's alignment affects their decisions.
DamonIsa 10th Feb 2015, 5:33 PM edit delete reply


Honestly I don't think there'd be half as many problems with Alignment Discussions as long as two things never happened.

The first is obvious, that a lot of metaphysical arguements about "Pure Good/Evil doesn't exist" doesn't really apply to DnD because well, there's Evil-dar, or spells that protect against Alignments, Holy and Unholy Objects, etc. It takes a lot of "subjective" reasonable stances and takes them out back to the woodshed when there is the absolutism of "I cast Detect Evil, they detect as Evil, SMITE EVIL!" Thus why you have shenanigans like people who play Chaotic Neutral because they want to be Chaotic Evil but don't want to deal with Paladins smiting their asses dead, etc.

And the other, a mechanic that thankfully no longer exists, but back in the day when changing Alignments actually penalized you. If you went from being Lawful Good to Neutral Good? Bam, you effectively lost a level. You went from True Neutral to Lawful Neutral? Lose a level, and so on. This combined with things like Helms of Opposite Alignment and the like made people very particular and sore about Alignment. Nothing like losing a key level because your DM suddenly says "... eh you've been evilish lately so you're no long Chaotic Good but Chaotic Neutral, lose a level."

If that never was a thing? Probably wouldn't be alignment arguments. Take for example... the Robotech RPG. Has Alignments in the three categories of Good/Selfish/Evil and so forth... but it doesn't really use the alignments as Rules or Penalties (Beyond some things like being unable to take Assassin Martial Arts unless you're Evil).

But those two factors combined? That started the shit storm of Alignment Arguments. Least in my experience.
DtDoom 10th Feb 2015, 7:23 PM edit delete reply


"Absolute evil"
In D&D good and evil are tangible forces, but that's not what your alignment really represents. No matter how evil you act, you are not an embodiment of absolute evil, you just act like one. Likewise, no matter how good you are, you still have the potential to do bad, thus you are not absolutely good.

Your alignment is a representation of your ideals, what you would strive to be given the opportunity. Lawful good doesn't mean you won't ever do evil things, or chaotic things. It just means that, given a choice, you prefer to act both lawful, and good. In general, the good vs evil side of alignment is slightly more important in how you act. The average Lawful Good person wouldn't hesitate to break the law in order to save an innocent person's life for instance. They would most likely willingly take the consequences (if any) for breaking the law, but it won't stop them from doing so.
Rooker 10th Feb 2015, 8:02 PM edit delete reply
Rooker
"Virtue of the Thing"
This is one mechanic I like better in Scion than in D&D without a freaking doubt! There is no concept of "Good" or "evil" except the Gods say "we are good, we are great, now go kill some Titanspawn! They are bad, they kick women and rape puppies...No, that wasn't a slip." When it came to dictating "Your character would/wouldn't do this" you had a Nature which only presented the penalty of "you are going to regenerate Willpower much more slowly (Still three other ways to regenerate WP but are less likely to come up) if you don't behave according to this" and your Virtues. The Virtues truly affected your character as a kind of "Alignment" effect. When you acted in accordance to your Virtue, once per Dot of that Virtue per Story (from plot hook to wrap-up, more or less) and add your Virtue's rating to your dice pool for the specified action. If you acted AGAINST it, then you had to roll the Virtue Rating. If you manage even one success, you are required to spend a point of Willpower or else abandon the decision because Fate goes "nope!" If you rolled more successes than you have usable points of Willpower remaining, you suffer Virtue Extremity. You go psycho and the Virtue you rolled for completely overwhelms your mind. For example, if you roll against your Valor Virtue and get 3 Successes while having only 2 points of remaining Willpower, you become so sickened with your cowardice and selfishness that you recklessly cast yourself into battle against the thing that set off your Virtue. You will not stop until the threat is dead and you have thrown yourself at the mercy of the victim of that threat whom you were about to abandon or otherwise abuse for your own gains.

It's pretty great. I played a round of Scion in a campaign setting where a Scion of Pan had me and my partner outmatched, partly by being a badass and partly because he had Magic Purview twisting the Fate of our actions against us. My character was the pregenerated Fanatic Nature Scion of Tezcatlipoca, an Aztec War God, named Aaron Tigrillo. The Scion of Pan had tricked us and was going to kidnap a group of Scion orphans. The good Doctor's Virtues were Conviction, Courage, Duty, Loyalty. When the villainous son of the Devil (in Scion, Pan adopted the name Satan to be worshiped without being punished by Zeus and became an ally of the Titans) revealed the whole game to us, he gave us a choice. We could walk away and live, or fight and most likely be killed by this overwhelmingly superior Scion. Dr. Tigrillo is a pragmatist and a devout follower of the Aztec beliefs, the children no longer coincided with the Greater Good and so he had no qualms abandoning them. My partner, however, was playing Eric Donner, Scion of Thor. You can guess how well that argument was going to end. Aaron tried to talk Eric out of suicide, then left. But I didn't like how that was letting the scene end for myself, so I pointed my own Virtues out to my Storyteller and he told me to roll my Courage, then my Duty if that failed, then my Loyalty if both of those failed because Eric and Aaron had been working together a while and Tim (yes, the Son of the Devil was named Tim) was a sick bastard who needed his heart cut out anyway.
I had been having a rough day and had one Willpower left as a result of it. Tim was outshooting Eric like it was a game, then he felt something coming behind him. Aaron had rolled 2 successes on Courage, triggering his Virtue Extremity which I manifested as being "possessed" by his own greater spirit and returning to the scene to fight Tim to the bitter end because I wasn't willing to spend my last Willpower to cancel out my Extremity. Glad I hadn't, it took my last point to not be killed a couple actions later when Tim produced a Xiphos to answer the Irish Relic longsword that Aaron had found in a hotel.

It was pretty great, really. I wish that friend hadn't moved. He was a great GM, very good at storytelling and came up with cool stuff on the fly.
Otaku 10th Feb 2015, 5:48 PM edit delete reply
Otaku
Alignments have long confused me. I mean, D&D wasn't my first RPG. Instead it was one where I got to build my character (by spending character points) and that included choosing traits that described my character's personality. Throw in your back story and you've got a pretty good idea of what is or isn't in character.

Oh, anything that restricts your freedom to act actually gave you character points instead of requiring to spend them for it, if you were wondering why anyone would take a limiting trait in the first place. This includes traits that might be viewed as "Noble" like Charitable, Honesty, Truthfulness, etc. but also includes those usually considered character flaws like Compulsive Lying, Greed, etc.

As others have alluded to, it is really hard to throw around terms like good, evil, law and chaos because they all have significant real world connotations.
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