Strip 301 - "Actually, you don't need Monk levels to do that"

8th Mar 2016, 12:00 AM in Cave of No Return
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Malroth 8th Mar 2016, 12:48 AM edit delete reply
Malroth
Non Monk Monsters can take it but usually don't have the DEX (not a problem for a DM Custom Monster) They also give up their 2 handed damage bonus for the round doing it, so it's not incredibly popular as thats at least -8 damage per hit x 3+ attacks/round it's giving up to be able to do that.
Raxon 8th Mar 2016, 5:31 PM edit delete reply
Raxon
Most players would sacrifice their damage for the round to block a shot to the balls.
Halosty45 8th Mar 2016, 5:35 PM edit delete reply
Halosty45
True, but I think the point is the combination of Combat Reflexes and Deflect Arrows implies monk levels, since both are bonus feats, and deflect arrows requires improved unarmed strike, also a bonus feat.

Also, either you're counting power attack in that damage or... much more strength than even a very strong <10 CR creature should have. 30 str gives +5 damage when two handing (str mod of +10, therefore +5 more).

He could also just give up the extra damage on AO's, and use two hands for the attacks on his round, and then take his hand off so he can deflect arrows off-turn. Though, Deflect Arrows is actually a wrong name. It's really just Deflect Arrow. Just one arrow. (or bolt, or sling bullet...)

I don't know if there was a point but I have now said some stuff. Yay.
zombi3DS 8th Mar 2016, 5:43 PM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
It definitely has monk levels or a very high cr because it didn't use Deflect Arrows, It used the higher tier Snatch Arrows.

Although I need to look back because letting go of a weapon is a free action and thus can only be done on the doer's turn so I want a good look at it's weapon since it looked like a falchion or greatsword but those are 2h only weapons so you can't attack if you let go, thus no AoOs this round? (ie you can hold your big badass sword in 1 hand but you can't swing it worth s***)
zombi3DS 8th Mar 2016, 5:35 PM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
How do you come up with at least minus 8, most monsters have strength scores ranging from 20-30 at midlevels which correlates to 5-10 damage base damage with 7-15 instead with the 2H bonus (2-5 more damage).

If your calculating with power attack, don't because it isn't really much good at low levels and actually gets worse, especially by level 20.
Raxon 9th Mar 2016, 12:38 AM edit delete reply
Raxon
By the time you hit 10, you should at least have great cleave.
zombi3DS 10th Mar 2016, 1:00 AM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
Yeah I should rephrase. Power Attack tends to trade unfavorably in pathfinder. It does much better in 3.5. But I was attempting to imply that adding it to a calculation for damage loss is a miscalculation since it adds a penalty to average damage.

It is still worth having mostly due to being a prerequisite for some solid feats but on its own it does tend to scale oddly in value.

I used to have the math lying around but at level 10ish vs things of equal cr it tends to drop your average damage vs most monsters that it counts against.

IE the stuff you want to drop asap before it kills you first- In a fight with a devil and dire wolf you kill the devil first but the devil tends to have better ac and dr.
Malroth 9th Mar 2016, 8:48 AM edit delete reply
Malroth
I assumed 24 base STR before size and level bonuses and a +4 enhancement bonus from a random buff potion as well as Pathfinder's much more balanced Power attack.
zombi3DS 10th Mar 2016, 1:29 AM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
See you use some terminology that doesn't go together though. For example for monsters their base str already assumes a size bonus or penalty and they don't stack in addition to the fact that enlarge person is very specific to humanoids only,

unless they have pc levels they don't get the untyped level +1 (Though we are pretty certain the ogre does have some levels),

assuming an enhancement bonus is not fair since 11/13 creature types tend to have problems with standard magic means to obtain such a bonus. The easiest method of bull's strength would be potions but going down the creature type list:
Aberrations: Tend to be too nonsensical from a humanoid perspective and don't tend to obtain such items, they also tend to have weird biologies like no mouths so may require oil form potions
Animal: Don't have the ability to imbibe on their own unless they have hands, likely don't understand to drink on their own with hands
Constructs: cannot eat or drink, if it is a golem it is likely immune, oils may work.
Dragons: Could drink in a form with thumbs.
Fey: Similar to aberrations and outsiders, have to get it from somewhere.
Magical Beasts: Opposable Thumbs, do you have them? No then you need an oil. (and someone to apply it to you.)
Oozes: Do you need to ask? (Actually you can pour a potion on it but then your buffing a mindless creature with no method of control)
Outsider: Where'd ya get that potion from? But yeah they can drink it if they can get it.
Plants: Really?
Undead: Can't eat or drink
Vermin: Nice lack of sapience or the ability to pick things up.
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